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Be The Master of Your Money w/ Rachel Cruze

03/31/21

Full Transcript

CM 1062: RACHEL CRUZE

COACH MIKE BAYER: Welcome back to Always Evolving, and my guest today is a number one New York Times best selling author. Her name's Rachel Cruz, but I've defined this morning that I'm calling her Miss Money or it could be little Miss Money or Little Miss is money, because Miss Thing loves to talk about money and she is an expert in that arena. So thanks for coming on Always evolving.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I mean, so some back [00:00:30] story on you is you have a few other siblings, you hear this all the time, your affiliation with your father, who's Dave Ramsey, who is iconic in the financial space. Let me ask you and you're now I mean, you've written books. You've been wildly successful in this space. Do you think so much of that was because of the way you grew up?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I would say a big part of it. I mean, I think I realized how I grew [00:01:00] up when it comes to money was really weird. I mean, I remember even going to college and talking to people I was just meeting for the first time. And if money was brought up, everything that they were saying, I just was told the opposite. I mean, it was I was taught money comes from work. And so I never was given an allowance. All of us kids, we were on commission. So you work, you get paid. You don't work. Yeah. Yeah. So I've always worked for money, and that's just what you do. We were told things like if you don't have the money, you don't [00:01:30] buy it. So debt was never an option. You know, it's kind of just common sense way of approaching life. And then I just realized how different it was. And the fact, honestly, that we talked about money. A lot of my peers have said, yeah, my parents never even mentioned it, or it was like politics, sex, religion, money. You just don't talk about certain subjects. And so even the fact they engaged conversation felt different. So I would say a part of that all of what I've been doing the last decade is a part of that that foundation. But also I have a passion for I have a passion for [00:02:00] the platforms of which I get to do it. I love doing shows like this. I love speaking on stages and writing books. And I enjoy that part of our culture, if you will, to be able to plug in hope and instruction where, for instance, my siblings, my brother and sister, like my sister, would die if she had to speak and say she hates public speaking. She's like, no, that your job sounds like torture to me. And my brother is kind of more behind the scenes. So I guess it kind of was a mix of what I enjoy and passionate about with my upbringing and that foundation that [00:02:30] I learned.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Was it ever feeling like, oh, how are people going to take me seriously earlier on in my career, if, if you're a woman who's the daughter of a mogul in terms of money and management and really is a trailblazer. Did you ever find yourself like maybe not being taken seriously?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: At times, and I think for me, I had to get to this point a few years and I realized, you know, I'm not a 60 year old bald man. That's [00:03:00] not me. And so why am I trying to mirror exactly what he does and how he does it? He's extremely effective in his teaching methods and how he does it. We all everyone jokes. He's like everyone's uncle who just gives you the truth and that's it. Right. And that's why people love it. It's great radio. It's great entertainment. It's all of that. But I'm a little bit different. Even my approach as a personality with my personality is even a little different. And so I think being secure and confident in how I am wired personally [00:03:30] kind of helped me overcome that and honestly put me in other positions that he may not have been able to be in. I mean, there some people have said, hey, we really want this interview because we want you to speak on X, Y and Z. And it's stuff that he probably would never really talk about or in the way they would want it. So I kind of feel like I found my groove and my messaging was all around at the beginning, especially more geared towards younger people and parents on how to teach your kids about money out of my life experience. So as I've, as I've grown and I have three kids now, I've been [00:04:00] married 11 years, all of that, I feel like with the life that's lived, there's a little bit of credibility that now I have that I probably didn't and probably shouldn't of at twenty two.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Right.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You know, I when I started going on Dr. Phil about two and a half years ago, and he's been doing it for, gosh, like twenty three, twenty four years. And I haven't done any television prior to that. And initially, you know, you kind of compare what is close to you. Like initially you're like, OK, what resonates with [00:04:30] people, what tone, how do I talk. And you can't help when you're trying to get better to compare. The problem is if you compare from a mindset of I'm not good enough, then you're obviously going to feel defeated, it sounds like, where you turned your own corner or created or maybe you naturally have that gift was like, all right, I'm different. I have my own unique skills. I'm also a woman. I'm not a balding man. And that you've kind of embraced [00:05:00] that. And so it's interesting to me that, like finance is when we think of Wall Street or finance, we think of men specifically like white men in suits.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Some of their suits are wearing like, you know, really they care what they look like. So they're almost like touch. I don't know if this visual of them going in the bathroom to look at their hair, to make sure they're, you know, curl is looking right. But

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Totally.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Like it's very strange, this concept [00:05:30] that men know money and that suddenly. But I do think it could be perhaps because power control, maybe like family norms that were taught, you know, years ago before we were

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yep,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Alive,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: And.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: About the man makes money, he takes care of the house. And what's cool is you've really. Done the opposite, right, in terms of your approach.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, [00:06:00] and what's interesting, too, is comparing Wall Street with Main Street, and I feel like I deal more with Main Street, the average American that's out there. And what we find in a lot of our research and a lot of what I've been doing is that the woman, even if she's a stay at home mom. The woman is the one more than likely does the budget, does the shopping for the family, pays the bills, all of that. Which is just fascinating to me, even over the last five years as I've been taking all this research and I'm like, man, it's so interesting because I'm kind of with you. Right? Kind [00:06:30] of more the old school approach, you're kind of like, oh, yeah, I just feel like the dude would do it all. The man would do it all. But it's not it's not what's happening. And so being able to empower those women and I think too there's there's a level of the roles of how, especially a married couple when you're together, to play. And I think that I like to go more about it not versus man versus woman, but to say, hey, whose personality leans toward this. So I always talk about the nerd or the free spirit someone. And the relationship is usually going to enjoy the numbers. They're going to enjoy [00:07:00] the budget. They're going to love looking at the investments.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: They're going to love, look, hey, can we cut insurance, go a little bit cheaper here? They enjoy that. They get energy from it where opposites attract and the other spouse is a little bit more like all that stresses me out. I feel like even the word budget breaks me out in hives because I feel like it's going to be constrictive. It's going to feel like I can't have fun, I don't want to do it. And so for me to bring those two completely different person out, different personalities, different tendencies to come together as one man or woman, whatever it is, because [00:07:30] I don't think it's fair for the woman to take care of everything. And the guy's like, yeah, I'm home. And so here you go. No, he needs to be involved and know what's going on and vice versa. I talked to some women like, yeah, you know, my husband and I don't even know how to log into my bank account. I'm like, that's not OK. You need to know what's going on. So to kind of take the gender out of it, if you will, and to say, hey, how can you take your own strengths and specifically if you're married and become a team and become one to win together over the long haul, that, that's the magic right there.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Let [00:08:00] me ask you, though, so like your husband, is he successful in business?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yes, real estate, real estate

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Ok,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Specifically.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: He's very successful. Do you think that was part of a condition you were looking for because it was important, like a value, hard work and money and.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, I would say so. I mean, we got married really young, and so we kind of have, like, grown up together and since and but I think for me, knowing [00:08:30] work ethic and not that money is everything, but there is a level for me that I'm like, yeah, I want to know if something you know, I had this dream of what my career would be like. But if something if everything hits the fan at Ramsey and I have to go home tomorrow and I have nothing, I want to know that I know that we still can turn on the lights. And Winston would always say that, like, we have this conversation a lot, because even with my job, I'm like, I want to live my life like this, that if it's taken away, you don't have to put me in a padded room somewhere and some institute because I don't know who I am if I'm not Rachel Cruze. And so we'll have these discussions. Nearing covid we [00:09:00] had these discussions of like what? What's going to happen? What if the market bottoms out and everything we work for? It's gone like all the stuff. And he looks at me. He said this for ten years. He's like, Babe, I will landscape yards if I have to. It's OK. And there's a level for me where I'm like, oh, like it just for me personally that there's a level of safety there for me. And so he had that attribute even as early as twenty three years old, that he was independent, self-sufficient, good. And so for me that was very much, I wouldn't say the only quality obviously that [00:09:30] attracted me to him, but it was a big one.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I don't know, I've dated so many guys with no money, like I don't know why I've like attracted like creatives or like and I don't know for me, if I am, maybe that could be my role in, like a dynamic or relationship as I like to feel like I'm taking care of someone.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And that just may be part of like my own way of, you know, a thoughtful gift or making their life easier, a new experience. But I [00:10:00] always I don't know why I had in my head that, like, someone who is makes a lot of money, is very busy making a lot of money. And so, like would our lives work out? But, you know, whatever, you know, a lot sometimes you attract those part. You attract what you love and what loves you. And I have several questions for you because I'm fascinated about money. The only other person I had on here wired Suze Orman on a long time [00:10:30] ago. And Chris

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Hogan,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Your buddy over you and your

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Nice.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Family of, you know, money makers

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And why? OK, so one question I have is. I have no idea when I'm ready to retire, how much money would one need to think about? Because I'm sure you've seen this a lot. People are like, I want to prepare. I'm saving for retirement. How the heck does someone even figure out when they're ready to [00:11:00] do that?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, well, I think it's obviously there's not a dollar amount that's going to be take the scape of everyone. And you mentioned Chris Hogan and he has a calculator on his website, which I love the retired inspired calculator. And you can, because when it comes down to a math concept where you say, OK, what what type of life do I want to live? How much money do I need to live off of to be able to do what I want to do at retirement? How much is that versus how much is saved? How much is in the market? How much return am I going to get? I mean, there was kind of a math formula to [00:11:30] it to know. But sadly, for a lot of people, they don't even have that option right now, which is terrible. And so for so to plan ahead early. Absolutely. But also it's interesting. There's like two camps on like the retirement side. There's the fire side. Right. And they they want to retire early. They're going to do everything possible so they don't have to work. And then there's other people I know that are going to work for the rest of their life, not because they have to, but because they want to and they want to do something. And always [00:12:00] I mean, so I think that your your lifestyle, what you want in your future and how much money you actually spend, all of that plays in to how much you need to have at retirement.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You know, I don't think a lot of people understand the benefits of living in other states, so I live in California and for the last

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Year

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: My brother moved to Puerto Rico and I own some places in Miami. And I've thought about moving to Miami because I think my understanding is if I live in Miami instead of California for whatever [00:12:30] is legal, that I ultimately could save up to 15 percent in taxes

 

RACHEL CRUZE: And taxes.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: On

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: My income,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Which you say put 15 percent of your earnings into investments or savings. Right. That's something I saw that you've recommended through your podcast. So I don't, can you explain a little bit and I don't know if you know much about this because I know a lot. I didn't realize this until the last few years. And I'm [00:13:00] forty one years old. Right. That literally just by living somewhere else, if you have an online business, how much money you save.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh, the tax part is, is absolutely insane. I mean, I mean, migration's even where I'm in Nashville, we're talking about this earlier, the migration from California, Chicago, all of that even in the recent in the last year or two and like this is insane. Yes. Because of the standard of living. And again, even, even real estate in California is going to be so much different than [00:13:30] Nashville or Manhattan versus Des Moines. I mean, like all of that. So looking to say your overall benefit, your standard of living, it's a, it's a big deal of what you're just paying out in taxes. Like, that's a very, very real thing. I've known people that sold businesses, but before they sold, they bought, they bought a residential home in Tennessee and moved here. And then what they say on taxes they could purchase their home for. I mean, it's just it's wild. So knowing that it is big and is huge and not saying that you have to make [00:14:00] your entire move and change your entire life because of it. But if you find that you cannot keep up with the housing, you can't keep up with how much money is going to taxes and it's not worth it. Like the stress of it, you may say, hey, you know what, let's uproot. Let's go to let's go to Dallas. So let's go to wherever and have this restaurant so you can actually have a life, because for a lot of people, they work really hard. And and I think with some of the tax laws and stuff that might be changing, I think I read this in California, certain parts and depending on what district you're in or county or, or, or part of the state, it could be upwards [00:14:30] of like fifty five, sixty percent of your income. So it's something to consider for people for sure.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah, like in congratulations, we both made The New York Times best sellers list

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: In the

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Thank

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: In

 

RACHEL CRUZE: You.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: The business category this last month. I have no idea how my book made the business category. They always

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That's

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Throw

 

RACHEL CRUZE: What I

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: It

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Said,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: In

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Too,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: There.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I was like, OK.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: But congrats. Congrats to us, because I know we came out during a very difficult time with media and elections, and so congratulations [00:15:00] on that. But the point is.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh, no, Mike, I storm, I launch my book two days later when the Capitol was stormed like that, that Wednesday of it was almost the same day maybe. Yeah. And I thought, oh, my gosh, at least I got all my big stuff out of the way. I thought, oh, Jesus, please, please let them just wait another week to get my book out first.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I know, but the thing to this point is if I wrote this book when I was in Florida, I would save 15 percent on what [00:15:30] the publishers pay me just by living in Florida and for what it is, I could buy a condo out there for the difference. And I'm just I'm saying this because I know some of our listeners are like, oh, man, I feel like I'm in this. You know, they have online businesses, they have different services. And they may say, well, I love living in the certain city, but really make sure as you're making more money and as your business is expanding, that you're looking at the income tax because the income [00:16:00] tax will destroy you. And Rachel suggests a 15 percent. And the reality is like, literally by moving you just take that other money that you would have paid in state tax and you just save it and invest it. Right.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, it's a great point, absolutely, absolutely.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Does does does Tennessee have income tax?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: No,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: My God, that's

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That's

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: So

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Why

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Amazing.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: They're all coming to Nashville.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It's

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I know

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Crazy.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: So many of my wealthy friends have moved. I'm like, I don't know what the state's going to do because honestly, the wealthiest friends I have have moved [00:16:30] to Austin and Dallas

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yep, yep,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I think Texas Florida doesn't have income tax, right?

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: No,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, I think

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Texas and Florida don't either.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yes. Yeah,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I was

 

RACHEL CRUZE: So.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Going to ask you, because part of what you were saying on on something that I listen to is about saving a thousand dollars. And I was like, all right, I'm speaking to Miss Money today and I want to I want to buy a thousand dollars of a certain stock. Now, I understand it's a long play. I [00:17:00] understand that, you know, it may not do well, but what I want to do and I don't think this is insider trading, but I want to ask you, because I'm

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Gamestop

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Going to buy at Wal-Mart, GameStop, what stocks

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Should I buy?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: You're not gonna like my answer, Coach Mike, because I'm not I'm not into single stocks, so I'm in I

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I'm pretty

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Know,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Boring

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You

 

RACHEL CRUZE: With

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Won't

 

RACHEL CRUZE: My investing.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Ever buy what, but it's a free thousand dollars to put towards a stock.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Ok, I would say maybe so [00:17:30] I don't I don't research it, so I'll say number one I don't even have a great answer for you. So but I would say if it's less if it's less than 10 percent of your net worth and you kind of want to dabble in it, then that's fine. That's that's totally great. But for the majority of people, though, and what I usually focus on are just mutual funds. So ninety to two hundred stocks that are together because the long track record of what it is. Right. Instead of putting all my eggs in one basket. But but I do see the thrill of it. I mean, almost in the same way of some people will, will put money into a business that's going up and they want a little bit [00:18:00] of equity and or they want to do a single stock. Right. But I would want that a very, very small percentage of your overall plan. So, again, pretty boring. But I mean, I'm I love Roth IRAs, four zero one k's,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Three B's

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Know the Rothh IRA

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Where

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Rate,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: You work

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Isn't

 

RACHEL CRUZE: All of

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: It,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: But isn't the Roth IRA like if you make a certain amount of money, you can't put the money away in a Roth every year?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: You can do a back door Roth, and so there's a way, there's a way to get around it.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Got it, and then what's

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: The maximum you can put into a Roth IRA a year?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I think it was the same, [00:18:30] so

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Four

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It changes

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Thousand or

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Almost

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Something.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Every year, is it? I think it's six, six right now. Yeah, and you can max it out both.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: So I'm not going to buy the stock, but if someone wants to text me what stock to buy to my community number three one zero nine eight four eighteen fifty eight, I'll buy a thousand dollars worth of that stock because I don't want to push Rachel to get out of her own integrity zone. And so you guys let me know.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It's less than 10 percent. I'm I'm good, I'm good.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: It's

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I just

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Definitely

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Don't know.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Less

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I genuinely [00:19:00]

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Than 10 percent,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Don't have a great answer for you.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Could you imagine? I literally all the money I have left, I'm like, I'm gonna talk to Rachel Cruze today and I'm just going to throw my money there. But what

 

RACHEL CRUZE: So

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Is your

 

RACHEL CRUZE: My

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Take?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: No, no, but but I will say this, speaking of all of that, because I am boring when it comes to investing, I mean, I just look at what's what's the long haul track record. So even things like Bitcoin, I was talking to a guy, he cash shot everything out at the market, put it all in Bitcoin. And I'm like, oh, not that I don't necessarily disagree with Bitcoin or whatever you want to do, but I'm like, man, all your eggs are in that dang basket. [00:19:30] You cashed out of the market. Where last year in twenty twenty. Oh my gosh. I mean we've been up to 30 percent more. I mean it was insane. So again, spreading out. So I love real estate, we love real estate and my whole family. But even with my husband and I like we, we love real estate, believe in real estate. And again, the market's just a boring old mutual funds.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: But what it what the heck can you explain Bitcoin and what it is you know much about it?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, well, it's basically a limited [00:20:00] supply. I mean, it's all it's like I don't even have the numbers out of my head, honestly. Yeah, the people are buying into this online currency. And the difference of it is that money, in a sense, is not finite. You can always go make more money, but bitcoin is finite. So so what you take out, there's nothing left once it's all gone. So that's why the price of it has continued to rise. And I think for the future of currency and all of that, that's what people are leaning towards, that that's what's going to happen. But and it could I'm not saying it can't ever, but I still just [00:20:30] don't believe that the dollar is is going to completely go away. I think I believe in the American economy enough to believe that

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: We'll probably

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Still

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Find

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Be OK.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Some of that stuff, the conspiracies and I find the people, and this is no disrespect to anyone who bought Bitcoin because you probably made a lot of money if you bought it

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Sure,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: When it was

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Sure.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: A lot less. But it can sometimes be a slippery slope when you think you know where the market's going and you have the answers because like as [00:21:00] a business owner, I can tell you like. I own treatment centers for mental health and addiction and such, and it's like once you get into like a huge amount of funds and everything else, I mean, it's it's. No one. No one is that brilliant at figuring out the market and figuring out, especially cryptocurrency. And it's just separate, like I know people who will buy gold and store it in safes. And I'm like.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. [00:21:30]

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I'm like, store water you know get

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That's

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Some water.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Right. Well, that's my thing, too, is I'm like, OK, let's just say if we just, like, played this whole scenario out and say the market did crash and we were in a Great Depression, everything was gone. Right. I'm going to like your point. I'm going to be looking for food and water, not like little bars of gold, you know? I mean, like, I'm like, no, like I feel like commodities at that point become the currency, not silver and gold necessarily. But what do I know?

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Why the heck and you probably find this [00:22:00] a lot, why do people spend because I don't relate to this, right? Like even capital wise, like I'm a saver, like I'm a saver. I diversify. I don't spend money that I don't have. I don't buy things that I can't afford. Why do people buy things if they can't afford them and it has no likelihood of going up in value?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It's a great question. [00:22:30] I mean, I think I think there's a couple of things I think that there's the, I think the emotional heart issue is a big part of this. I think as an American culture, we have believed that the more I have of this, the nicer car I drive, the better house, I mean, all of these things equal happiness. That if I could just have this, everything's going to be OK. And as we know time and time again, because I've fallen into that before, you end up like [00:23:00] a rat on a wheel just running and you get nowhere in life. But when things when you think that that is going to be it, man, it will it will destroy you emotionally, but it also will destroy your bank account because you're trying to live up this American dream. And it kind of drives me nuts because I'm like, who set the standard of living like people all around America, no matter what state you're in, no matter what income level you're at, there's like this point of, yeah, you should have this amount of house. You should everyone there should, of course, of course, be two [00:23:30] cars in every driveway. You should be able to, to, to go on at least two vacations a year, whatever. It's like the standard that everyone has set. And if you don't have the income to do that, debt is a really easy avenue just to just to walk through. And the sad thing is, it's a quote my dad says all the time and I loved it, so I kind of stole it.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: But it's so true. He always says it's OK to have nice stuff. Just don't let your nice stuff have you and it has you through what we're talking about it has you through debt. It owns you. [00:24:00] That thing owns you. That car payments that that that mortgage that is that is 50 percent of your take home pay that you have the credit card debt, all of that. It limits your options and you're forced to continue down like the American dream. You're forced to stay in a job you hate to pay these bills of things that you've already bought. It's so sad. I mean, it is a form of bondage in our culture that people have just subscribe to and said, OK, so so your debt, your stuff has you when you're in debt for it. But also [00:24:30] there's that contentment factor and it is so huge. People really, really look at other people and say, man, if I could just go on that vacation, I would be so happier if I could just drive that car and get not that nice vacations and nice cars or bad by any means. But when you think that that's going to be the source of your joy and your happiness long term, you're going to you're going to fail miserably. And you're and some people don't get out of the rat wheel. Right. They continue on it and just chase, chase, chase, chase. And so

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: What's

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It's an.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Your guilty pleasure, like I can tell you, if I gift give, I've [00:25:00] given several times Hermès Blanket, right. Like that's like something I'll give to people if they've done something amazing in my life, because it's one of those things I feel like most people don't really want to buy because they're expensive, but they're really nice and everyone likes them. Right. You can't go wrong.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It's good,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That's

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Then

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Good,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: In my

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Own life, I buy art like I'll buy my guilty pleasure is buying.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I see it behind you, yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah, I got art all over my house, so I say it looks like a colorful pinata shit all over the place at my house. You know, it's [00:25:30] just it's blasted so but, like what are yours in terms of, like giving and also overall that like you're like this when you're like, I achieved this, so I'm going to spend on blank.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I mean, I'm such, such a woman in this, but I mean, I would say clothes

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Clothes

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Clothes

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And what, what

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Like like if you had let's say you just you made a fortune, you're like, I'm going to walk into is it like Chanel? Is it like what is the store [00:26:00] where

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You're like?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: No, I'm not that fancy. Oh, I don't know, I mean, if I could just go online and

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Oh, come

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I'm

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: On, you

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Pretty,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Don't have any.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I'm.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: There's no fancy about a bag or anything.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: No, I do so not so here's what I did on my last book love your life, not theirs. When I hit a certain amount of copies, I told myself I'm going to buy a pair of Louboutins. So that was my like my, my fancy purger. I was like, OK, I'm going to do it. But then here's the thing. It's kind of we're going back to like the I'm [00:26:30] like, oh, I just need a pair of red bottoms if I can have it in my closet where they're facing, where

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I have,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I see

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Incredible,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Them when I walk in.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: By the way, I have an incredible hook up, by the way, for Louis Vuittons. I know the

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Stop.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Know

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Are

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: The seller

 

RACHEL CRUZE: You serious?

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And they do pop ups and they're like 80 percent off.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Actually, I have heard about this, they did they did that look at Manhattan stuff,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: In

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Didn't

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: L.A.,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: They?

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Too. Yeah, I'm buddies with the person, the unfortunate thing is I just don't think the shoes with the spikes and everything on a six foot five, two hundred eighty pound man doesn't really work, you know, but with a

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Woman,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Could,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: It's

 

RACHEL CRUZE: It

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: A thing.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Could.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: But [00:27:00] you bought

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Them,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Know that.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You bought them, and then you were like, OK, I'm feeling them for a special occasion, it's not like you thought about

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yes,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Them that much.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: And they're fun to wear. I mean, when I wear them, I'm very aware that I'm wearing them, but it's still just like I was like, OK, it kind of just became a thing again, you know? I mean, like it's like the magic and all of that is gone. So that would be, yeah, that or a nice bag.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Because what

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Love

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Did

 

RACHEL CRUZE: A good bag.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: When I was reading Know Yourself, Know Your Money, which is her latest book, [00:27:30] which is Rachel's latest book, you talk about the giving scale, open handed and close fisted. Can you talk about that and what that means?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yes, so the way you approach money and your viewpoint on it changes a lot about how you handle money. So giving is a big part of what I believe in. I think it's such a part that people miss. And some most people, not most, some people, they live their life like this. Right. They hold money so tightly. [00:28:00] And there's this sense of security which money does bring a level of that. But it almost gets to this unhealthy place where they think I'm just going to continue just to hoard or hoard. And again, it's that mindset that that this is going to this is going to be OK. If I can just have this, everything's going to be fine. Where people's their families, their relationships, all of this just starts to dissolve around them. But they just they still hold on so tightly. And so I have just found when you live life with an open hand to everything from your your job to your money, all of [00:28:30] that, some of it may leave. But I was hoping it gives the opportunity for more to come back in. Like when you can do this with your money, there's a level of ownership that you're saying. And for me, the spiritual sense is big where I'm like, OK, as a Christian I believe God owns it. So I'm like, OK, what do you want me to do with that? Like, what do I do with the resources you have given me? And so having that open hands for me is is so massive because again, it takes the the reason why I'm doing my work, it takes the reason on why I want to work with money, all of that, not [00:29:00] just for my inward focus, like we are so inwardly focused.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Twenty four seven. It's all about us all the time. And when you can actually pause and say, hey, there's someone out there that actually may need help, there's actually I could pay for someone's adoption. They want to adopt, but it's so expensive and we could do that, like the most creative things in the world can happen. And I have found probably the most honestly over the last three or four years of my life where I've realized if I can put time, money and energy into the things that you can't buy, that [00:29:30] is where life is for me. So if I can put time, energy and money into my family, into my friendships, I mean all of those things in my life that is so much more life giving than just trying to say, OK, I just want to buy all of this all the time. And so that, that giving perspective, it changes a lot when you can have a heart of generosity and gratitude. I think it fixes a lot of our discontentment that we have.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah, it's interesting you say that, so I'm in Los Angeles, so there's a lot of homelessness, probably a lot of homeless [00:30:00] in Nashville

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Oh, yeah, no,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And I

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Don't

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Not

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Know

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Like

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And

 

RACHEL CRUZE: L.A.,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: This

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Though, I

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Is

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Know

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: This

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Is real talk. Sometimes I walk by people. I'm like, I'm not giving them a dime. And sometimes I walk by people and I'll even throw a twenty while they're sleeping. And sometimes I'm like, what if this is like Jesus reincarnated, where it's like, give them money? Like like in my head I'm like, what am I supposed to give money? But I'm not. So I'm like doing this wrong. And it's like, you know, like because there's also enabling. Right. At a certain point you can enable [00:30:30] behavior to if someone walks over intoxicated and you're buying their next booze. So like and sometimes and I know what you mean by like giving and giving with an open fist to friends, family, relationships, generosity, whether that's, you know, like I'm very accommodating when people say at my house in L.A., whereas

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Uh.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Other people I know, it's like, don't touch this, don't do that. It's like very and it's very like you're saying it's tight clenched. [00:31:00] It's like the level of like I may leave town this weekend, I'm going to have a friend stay in my house and I'm like, yeah, just have fun. But like some people and I think it's that mentality, I think I, I naturally have that, but. I can see when we're in fear, we really go, oh, don't spend money here, don't do that, and we can sometimes have anxiety. That isn't the reality, right.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That's exactly right, yeah, and to your point earlier, that [00:31:30] is spot on, I don't want to enable behavior. Right. So the mom who continues to fund her thirty two year old son's life because he can't go get a job and self-sustained, she's not just harming herself. She's harming him, from robbing him of the dignity to go out and win on your own. So there's a point where giving becomes enabling. And the hard thing about enablers is that they're the nicest people on the planet. Right. You talk to enablers, you're like, oh, my gosh, you're so nice. They just want to help all the time. That's all they want to do. And so there is a point. So whether it's the homeless guy on the street or a family member where you say, hey, [00:32:00] am I helping the situation? And so maybe there maybe there is a time when you're walking down the street and you really do feel this pull of I really feel like I should give to that one person, maybe just do it. And you say, hey, whatever happens, it's not my business anymore. But I felt the pull to do that. Or you go, which is kind of how how my husband and I function a little bit more. We're a little bit more diligent when it comes to the giving. So we, we research, we look at especially if they're if they're five zero one C three, that you can [00:32:30] look at where their budget is, where they're when you give money to that organization, where it's actually going and all of that. So we do research on the on the front end because I'm like, if I'm giving you the money that I've earned for something that I am really passionate about, I want my money to be, duh, I want my money to help with that thing, not fund somebody's car payment or whatever. You know what I'm saying? So.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah, what yeah, what is your take since you're Christian and grew up Christian, like there's mega [00:33:00] churches and mega wealth and like and I'm not in that world. Right. Like, I'll see it on TV and I'm like, how the hell are they affording this TV spot? At like

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: A good

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Hour and it's huge and like. Is I'm just curious your thoughts, and I know there's like, look, there's always with any group of people, there's good guys and quote, people that aren't ethical. There's there's the range, right.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yes, yes.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: What is that [00:33:30] like? It's a little confusing to me because I'm like, is it geared towards this is how to spread the message to spend money to create more of a message? Or is it for a church itself to be more recognized? Or like what is the intention of giving money to any religion? What is the

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Idea behind it?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, no, it's a great question and I think some places do it a whole lot better than others. So the ones that you probably [00:34:00] get a gross feeling with, probably because they're probably kind of gross. I mean, like there's you you can tell. And so. Well, for me, I'll say, giving because we do we get we give to our local church because of what that does. That's a place that we're able to go. And and our church, one of the reasons we picked it, honestly, is because they serve our our city probably the best I've ever seen. I mean, they they they make the government look irrelevant when it comes to downtown Nashville. When they do so much, they have a car ministry, they have a food bank, all [00:34:30] of this stuff. So so part of the resources that that we give, the hope is, is that it is spread like that's what it is. And and I'm not ashamed of it, but I'm like, yeah. I mean, it helps pay the salary for for a church, someone who works at the church, then that's great because they allow it to run and be open. And so for me, that's it. That's a small part of our giving of what we do.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: And then above and beyond that as well. So people that you may not be religious or someone listening may not be and they may not have a quote unquote religious organization to give to. But I [00:35:00] would say find something, know, that you are passionate about to give to, because this is a big part of what makes giving fun. Like it's sometimes not fun if you're just kind of giving into this black hole and you have no clue what's going on. But if you have something so whether it is foster care or adoption or or orphans or clean water, like, find the thing out there that's going to help people and give to that, because that's what makes it, in my opinion, so much more enjoyable and so much more Life-Giving. Like, if you can just like write a ten thousand dollar check for a single [00:35:30] mom to have a new car that would change her life forever, forever. And so it's just powerful things that you can do for people that it's again, I can't reiterate enough like it is so much different. The joy you get so much different than buying a Louis Vuittons, not the Louis Vuittons are bad. I love them. But this is different. It's totally different.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Well, let me I just want to ask you one more Christian religious question, got a lot of, Christian friend. So

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah, sure, sure.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I you know, like I love diversity

 

RACHEL CRUZE: No, it's great.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Of all people. [00:36:00] So my question is, when do you think that somebody and I know you can't speak for, like, all religions or whatever, but I'm just curious because I'll hear people often, often and go. We'll all pray for that. And

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Uh,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I imagine

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: With money there can be a block with the actualities of it. And I and I notice this with like different things. I'm wondering if it's similar that you see where somebody could be like, well, I prayed about it and [00:36:30] God hasn't showed up for me because, you know, A, B and C happened. Do you see that at all? Or people, like, somehow put in too much? It's almost like faith without works, you know what I mean?

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Sure, sure, we're going like we're going to like theology here. OK, so I would I mean I mean, I would say it's an element of your relationship with God. And so for me, if there's something in my life that I and when I say want [00:37:00] that's not like, oh, God, I want to I want a new Tesla. Please bring me a new Tesla. I mean, it's not that kind of thing, but if it's like, yeah, I want this relationship healed or I feel like I'm struggling in this area and I am sick of it, like I want I want to be healthier there or whatever it is that I'm that I'm praying for. Yeah. I mean, I think God answers in multiple ways. I think there could be an obvious change in your life that is that is obvious. I think that there are elements of the journey that we go through that, in my opinion, almost make you stronger [00:37:30] during the hard times. And you say, OK, what am I learning from this? Because can you learn when you're successful and at the top and winning financially all that? Sure, you can still learn, but you're pretty comfortable, right? Life's pretty good. But when you have a hard time, whether it's financial, relational, I mean, you said you work with people that have addictions, all of that, like when you're at the bottom of the bottom, there's a level of perseverance and character that's formed in that.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: So when I have those times in my life, those are times where I just pray that I'm here. I [00:38:00] don't like it. I'm feel like I'm suffering. I'm miserable. I want you to pull me out. I want you pull me out. But if I'm not being pulled out, what are you teaching me? And not that he's has a consequence for me or not that he's saying I'm putting you here because you did something wrong. I don't believe that. I think we I believe an extremely loving God. And he's crazy about us and he loves us and he wants a relationship with us. So I don't think that there's like these terrible consequences. But I do think that there are consequences that happen to us through our choices. Right. Like, if I choose to go have an affair, there is going [00:38:30] to be consequences to that in my life. Not that God's putting that on me, but that's just life that's going to happen. And so I think it's all of that makes sense. That makes sense.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Yeah,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: I don't know if I

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: You

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Explain

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Know,

 

RACHEL CRUZE: That.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: It's

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Well, that's kind of how I see it.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: It does I think it's helpful for people to realize, too, that you can pray for something, but you got to do the work, too, like part of getting sober. And I did it for years. And I still have a ritual. I do before I speak or any moment where I'm like, alright Mike, be yourself get out of ego, you know, as I'll get on my knees because I just find there's [00:39:00] humility in it. And when I got sober, that's part of what I do. I get on my knees by the bed and I would pray and I would just be like, all right, thy will be done. And really just trying to open myself up to, like, following through with the spirit of my existence for the day and getting

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Out of fear

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And emotion. If I prayed and said, God, give me that job. It's more like that's different than going, God show me the way today, [00:39:30] you know, and sometimes what we believe we want isn't actually what we're supposed to be doing. And sometimes we get in our own way by thinking that through prayer or like demanding of whatever

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Higher power we have, is not really how it works. And I remember one time I was praying and I love a good prayer, like I love praying, meditating, like wrap me up [00:40:00] in an Hermès arms blanket and let's pray the world away. Right. So I'm all about doing it with friends. And I remember one time I was praying and I heard this thing in my head where I was like, I think I had something going on. I heard what I heard in my head was "Mike stop praying to me, go eat a sandwich". And like, it was like a turning point for me because I was like, whatever that thing was and it could be voices in my head was like, man, stop praying to me. Go, go [00:40:30] on with your life. You're hungry, like, what are you doing? But I think it's like, you know, so much of life and our relationship to others and money and family and giving. And that's really when you talk about having an open hand or closed hand, an open hand is being open to the spirit of your existence and navigating through

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah,

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Life. And

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Yeah.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: I really think that it's a good reminder that aligning with who we are and [00:41:00] aligning with opening ourselves up and not being in fear is really the path to, to living in your last book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money is the more you know yourself, the more you're going to be aligned with your spirituality and the more your relationship to your money is going to be cleaner and authentic.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Absolutely, yeah, I think that there's a level of self awareness that more than ever and you're in this world so much more than I even am, but a level of self-awareness that I feel like right now [00:41:30] and our culture is accepted. Like I feel like we're allowing ourselves to know our emotions and we're allowing ourselves to go back to our childhoods and figure out how that formed us. Like we're we're kind of living in that space more than the baby boomers or the generation before them. I think we are more open to that. And I think it's really, really healthy because like you're saying earlier, part of that self-awareness, you may say, wow, I am just kind of depending on other people or God to just do everything or no, you reap what you sow. Scripture says, like, [00:42:00] you actually have to go and do something. And so I always say you work like it depends on you pray like it depends on God. So there's like there's a there's two parts of that equation that are very real. And so having the self-awareness to dig in and say, OK, where am I at with my money, where what kind of role does money play in my life? What are my dreams around money? What are my fears? Because all of that dictates how you handle money on a day to day basis.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Rachel, I appreciate you coming on, always evolving, where can everyone [00:42:30] find you, everyone, your books available everywhere, know yourself, know your money. I mean, it's I mean, we're basically siblings with our books out there in the world.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Now, congrats on that. I know it's pretty fun, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So you can find my podcast wherever you, wherever you love Podcast, search The Cruze show. I also have a YouTube and Facebook version of that. And yeah, the book is anywhere, anywhere you can get it.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: And and you guys all let me know and let Rachel know what is your relationship to money, how do you feel about money? [00:43:00] And once you get hooked into the there's a whole Ramsey network, it's Rachel Cruze Ramsey. It's Rachel and her dad and Chris like. So if you're looking for anything in this money realm, financial, and as you can hear it's not just about the outward existence of money. It's also your relationship to it, your spirituality, your family, your planning, your peace, your resilience. So hook into their network, because I know a lot of you have messaged me that you're struggling [00:43:30] with finances. And to be honest, I'm giving you a solution in terms of your go to shop. So thank you, Rachel, for joining us.

 

RACHEL CRUZE: Well, thank you, Coach Mike, seriously, it's an honor to be on, so I appreciate it.

 

COACH MIKE BAYER: Thank you all for listening to Always Evolving, and I really appreciate all of those text messages you guys have been sending me and reposting any of the podcasts on Instagram and tagging me so I can re-share it. So if you want to text me, the number's three [00:44:00] one zero nine eight four eighteen fifty eight. Many of you attend a free empowerment group every Tuesday at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time. You can get more information on that at Coach Mike Bayer.com and until next time, keep it magical and keep living. The always evolving with Coach Mike Beer podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and is not intended as a replacement or substitution for [00:44:30] any professional, medical, financial, legal or other advice, diagnosis or treatment. This podcast does not constitute the practice of medicine or any other professional service. The use of any information provided during this podcast is at the listeners own risk. For medical or other advice appropriate to your specific situation please consult a physician or other trained professionals.